Judy Warner (00:01) Hi Ben. Hi, Tyler. So good to see you both. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation and what you've been doing at Signal Edge Solutions these days. Tyler (00:10) Yeah. Great to be Ben Dannan (00:11) Thank you for having us. Tyler (00:11) here. Yeah. Judy Warner (00:13) Well, we've had some conversation outside of a podcast conversation. I really wanted to sort of elevate what you guys are doing there because I think it'll really impact engineers in the field. So thank you for spending your time and and sharing your thoughts on on the things we're gonna discuss today. So before we get started, why don't you each introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your background, your role at SES. and then we'll get started on the rest of the conversation. Ben, let's start with you. Ben Dannan (00:47) Sure. Ben Darren, I'm the founder of Signal Edge Solutions. And Signal Edge Solutions was founded to really address the simulation, modeling, and measurement gap that we see in industry. I like to tell the story when I was at North of Grumman, you know, as a SPI solving, you know, pro problems across 40 different programs a year. That gap was not getting smaller and realized there was an opportunity there. And so started this company and we've grown exponentially since then. Now we're a team of experts and continuing to grow. And we're supporting everybody from data center, aerospace, defense, automotive, medical, and others. And we focus specifically on providing services and products to customers to solve that capability gap and ultimately be your one-stop shop for SIP IMC. Judy Warner (01:34) Tyler. Tyler (01:35) Yeah, Tyler Huddleston, SIPI engineer at Signal Edge Solutions. My background has mainly been in digital hardware design until I met Ben and he became my mentor and then I really took an interest into signal integrity and power integrity. Judy Warner (01:51) Well, now you're swimming deep in the deep end of the pool, aren't you, Tyler? Tyler (01:56) yeah. Judy Warner (01:57) yeah. So, Ben, you talked a little bit about why you started Signal Edge Solutions and you mentioned the gap there, but as you know, it's a crazy time in our industry and the innovation and the speed is crazy. And I don't I honestly don't know how engineers keep up. So What was sort of the pervasive issue you saw, say when you were at Northrup, that you thought you would take a shot at solving and providing that as a service to fill that gap across the industry? Ben Dannan (02:33) Yeah, and so this is a really broad question. this really kinda encompasses everything from not just signal integrity but power integrity. If you look at the industry as a whole, and we even go deeper to like a power integrity perspective. And if you were looking at the work that I'm doing or have done with Stephen Heidi and I brought Tyler along so we can collaborate and do some fun things together, I mean two thousand amps is really second nature now. And Judy Warner (03:00) Crazy. Ben Dannan (03:01) I mean, we're working on, you know, three and four thousand watt ASICs, four and five thousand amp PDNs. It's it's getting insane. And so just from a power integrity perspective, there are challenges just from a measurement uncertainty where you can have a 30 millivolt measurement uncertainty in your measurement. And there are challenges that you need to understand how to even make that recipe from a management perspective to make that work. Those are the problems that we're solving. On the signal integrity side, it's just the same. there are constant challenges from You know, how are you able to do the simulation and modeling? A lot of people are concerned more today with PDN crosstalk or PDN to SI crosstalk or PI to SI crosstalk. And so we've shown challenges and how to address those challenges from a modeling and simulation perspective. Like we published, Tyler and I did paper last year. We showed single digit millivolt correlation to measurement and simulation. And so really folks are really interested today and this really goes down to the integrators, the folks that are shipping these systems like data centers, aerospace defense and others, on how to really model that true system. And those are really where the problems are getting very complex. we saw it at Northrop, where people were worried about like a power supply cupping into a signal trace or RF trace or a surdes. And we've shown how to do that successfully, but it's not common knowledge to the industry and people still struggle Judy Warner (04:19) Mm. Ben Dannan (04:19) with that. It's even more challenging when people are trying to measure that if you look at it from a big picture big a bigger picture, right? Let's just say you want to make a time doing measure with the oscilliscope. Great, you picked out your scope. What about everything between the scope and your duck? If you're an engineer, mid-level, young, even senior, it's overwhelming from a product portfolio perspective to understand what's the recipe I need to make that measurement successful and minimize my uncertainty. And that's where we come in to not only just help you from the services, but recommend that product. To be that one stop shop, and these are the challenges. Judy Warner (04:57) Yeah, I know that you've talked to me in the past about specifically well, let me ask you this first. You you mentioned aerospace and defense, of course. there's a lot of spend and drive and innovation there. And I assume AI and data center, maybe robotics, just from a high level, like Why is it why have the power and signal demands gotten so crazy? Ben Dannan (05:29) Yeah, mean standard ASICs today are really being driven. Well, not just ASICs, but if you look at where the FPGA market is, and this is where a lot of you can probably use it as a simple benchmark. It's not the benchmark. But look at the the this the higher end class FPGAs. I'm really looking at like the versal class from AMD, Agile class. Before we had like the the vertex, the Kintex and some of the other Intel families, like the Cyclones, those were like you know, maybe 30 watt, 40 watt, sub those package, sub that wattage packages. Now we're easily at hundred, two hundred plus watt packages, and that's not even save with the art. Take that and extrapolate it to custom ASIC side. It goes down to people are doing more lanes on a chip, right? You're trying to put more CERTs. That means more power, more BGAs, bigger packages, more thermal, more challenges. It's all about data. And I I think everybody knows this who's l listening to this podcast, Judy Warner (06:30) I'm sure. Ben Dannan (06:30) but it it it just doesn't stop. I mean, I remember when, you know, a company recently that just got bought by Siena, you know, out of New Jersey, Pete Papalukas works there, they were making basic optical transceivers. They came out one point six terabit op optical transor optical transceiver with sixteen lanes. That's yesterday. Now they're trying to double that. Everybody's doing the same thing. And so the power is another challenge just adds to the crazy complexity, right? I mean if you look at 224 G, if you're in an interconnect company like a Samtec or a Molex, they're already working at full four hundred G. Not everybody's Judy Warner (07:07) Yeah. Ben Dannan (07:08) there, but a lot of people are looking at those or integrating or building proof of concept or trying to ship certain things. It's it's Judy Warner (07:14) Right. Ben Dannan (07:15) it's a great time, frankly, to be a double E if you're a double E and if you want to specialize in the space, it's a great time just to be an engineer. It's it's it's never been like this before. I didn't know Steve and Heidi would say the same thing. And evenly Richie, right? We're all of our good friends, right? So it's it's definitely Judy Warner (07:31) Right. Ben Dannan (07:32) fun. Judy Warner (07:33) Yeah. I I it but it's also overwhelming. Like for us that have been in it a long time, it's it's really like just the transistor count. Like I've had conversations; it's just unfathomable. It really is. For those of us that are from way back in the day, the changes we've seen are stunning. And then in the last few years it's like doubling, as you said faster than ever. The speed at which we went from 112 to 224, and now to 448 for me, was shocking. And then again, you were working on the 2000 amp thing with Heidi and Steve. And then I talked to you, and they're like, yeah, we blew past that. And I was like, that happened five minutes ago, lol! Ben Dannan (08:21) Yeah. And that's just Serdes. We're not even talking about memory. Memory is a whole other animal in itself. Judy Warner (08:26) Okay, well let's talk about memory because I know you've talked to me about that a bit, like what challenges there are there, which I think you uncovered some things specifically about memory that are interesting. So why don't you tee that up and then we'll we'll dig in a a bit more with Tyler on what you've created to create solutions there. Ben Dannan (08:49) Yeah, so our team here at Signal Edge Solutions- our team of experts, Tyler and I are both Keysight-certified experts. So we know the tools inside and out. And we have driven lots of other tools, and we are constantly using other tools, benchmarking, doing all these sort of things. We do a ton of memory simulation, whether it's DDR4, DDR5, LP DDR4, DDR5, DDR5X, it doesn't matter. We are doing forty-plus simulation jobs a year. It's an incredible amount of memory simulation. out there in industry and it's not getting simpler. speeds are going up. the packages are getting smaller. And that means challenges like crosstalk are becoming front and center, along with other issues. and so these simulations are notoriously very time intensive. I have a we just a weird fascination with with doing these simulations, which is why I've always wanted our team to focus on it because it's they're complex but they're fun if you understand how to solve them. So there are really good tools out there, like Keysight has Memory Designer. We use memory designer a lot. And there are other tools out there from Cadence and other companies. And we found using these tools, there are challenges in the workflow, specifically in the compliance side. So great, you can generate some eyes. Cool. Well, now when you run like a compliance simulation where you're looking at your setup at hold or your compliance with respect to like a JEDEC standard, which is typically where all these memory standards are kind of upheld to. Like you want to look at your crossing points or like a slew rate, that's all the JEDEC standard. We're seeing issues where one, these compliance tools are extremely time consuming to where a a license can be locked up for days and you lose that you lose that machine because you lose your mouse. And that's really not acceptable. If you look at the speed of what people are trying to do from a simulation and sign off criteria, losing a machine for anywhere from twenty four to 72 hours even in four days, and is not really acceptable. And then on top of that, you lose that license. That means you don't have that resource to do other things. So you've lost not only the hardware asset, but the license. And to really kind of put icing on the cake there, where we've seen a lot of challenges with some of these tools, we've seen a lot of false positives to the point where we're working with companies and we give them the compliance report and we can show them where the fails are that they are not fails. It's just the tool calling. these fails incorrectly. And so that really became a pain point for us because we do so much memory simulation. And that's where we push the team. And as a team, Tyler's going show you what we came out with MemCheck Pro, which really just complements that memory designer workflow. And instead of taking, you know, three days, four days, it takes less than 30 seconds to do a full compliance check. And so it's really quite impressive. So I think what makes it more interesting is that we had a customer recently and we had there were five different DDR buses on this, and we had to do all five buses at all different corners. So read and write at all different corners, so you know, typical min, max, etc. So you're talking a huge number of simulations, over 30 plus simulations. That means it would have taken us multiple weeks to do compliance for all of those. That's not really acceptable for the timeline. Tyler showed where he took all that simulation data, uploaded it into our tool in the same step, and ran the compliance check, and then to post-process all that in one report in under a minute. Judy Warner (12:30) Stop. Ben Dannan (12:31) For all five buses. And that's a huge game changer. That's we can see that people. Judy Warner (12:33) Okay. Well, okay, I have yeah, okay, so I have a couple questions. So Ben Dannan (12:39) Mm-hmm. Judy Warner (12:40) you said it's giving you false positives, false positive that the compliance fails or okay, all right, so Ben Dannan (12:46) Yes. Yeah. So it's saying this is a failure, but we go and look at their waveform and we can actually go and prove based on what the software is saying to fail, where it's putting its markers are incorrect. Judy Warner (12:58) Okay. All right. okay, so that go ahead, Tyler (13:01) Yeah. I would also add that sorry. Judy Warner (13:04) Tyler. Tyler (13:04) Yeah, I would add that these tools are also not checking for things that are specifications within the JDEC standard. like clock monotonicity doesn't get checked. you know, like VIX I think doesn't get checked on all the signals. So the slew rate too is another thing that we've caught. Judy Warner (13:25) So I can imagine that Ben Dannan (13:27) We're more encompassing. Our tool is even more encompassing to the standard. Judy Warner (13:30) Okay, so you've built more in and it's still faster and more accurate Ben Dannan (13:35) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Judy Warner (13:37) than mainstream tools. Ben Dannan (13:39) Yeah, we showed this the key site, because you know, we're kinda we're low co launching this with Key Site. Judy Warner (13:42) Yeah, you guys are close, yeah. Ben Dannan (13:44) And Randy White said, my god, this is compliance on steroids. Judy Warner (13:49) Okay. Ben Dannan (13:51) Yeah, so it's it's really, really cool. I mean, Key said super excited about it because it really just complements that memory designer workflow. It's gonna enable Judy Warner (13:59) Right. Ben Dannan (13:59) people using memory designer just to be faster and just go faster. Sign off the design, get out the door, ship it. Judy Warner (14:07) Okay, so let me let me just feed back to you as a civilian, not an engineer that's deep in the weeze like you guys are. So you saw this bottleneck and and a a reliability of the tool issue in your team because you're doing a ton of memory simulation. And so created this huge bottleneck for you, which you know, you guys are a a small emerging company. And so it It tied up all your equipment, your software licenses, and it just took too long. So you're like, shoot, and you try different tools and you're like, This is a real problem. We think we can do better. And then you created this tool. Wow, that's amazing. That's an amazing story. Okay, Tyler, I know that you were instrumental in in creating this software. So can you show us actually what it looks like in practice to help? Tyler (15:04) Yeah of course. Judy Warner (15:05) Both me and our audience understand sort of how it works and, you know, help us sort of visualize it maybe a little bit better. Tyler (15:14) Yeah, so here's what the tool looks like. the starting point is that you had already done your simulation or even a measurement, and all you're passing to the tool is some metadata, like you want to give it a name, an output directory, some of the setup settings, just so you have that listed in the report. So whoever's looking at the report knows what they're looking at, what to expect. I'm gonna take a shortcut and just load a session file. So I'm pointing to nine different data sets. As Ben had mentioned, we run three corners, slow, typical, and fast, and then three scenarios, the command and address bus, and then the data in the right direction and the data in the redirection. And and then this is also this is for a single interface. So we have nine different data sets. I loaded it in, it detected it's DDR4, the data rate is twenty four hundred, and then some of the stuff I had already entered, like the drive strength, the name of my models, the artwork version. Ben Dannan (16:21) Yeah, Tyler, can I apologize? So Judy, this is really cool. So what the software is doing as Tyler reads in this this data set, it's already looking at the clock and telling you what the data rate is. You so it makes it easier for the users to to really discern and automatically set these things up for you. Tyler (16:37) Yeah. Yeah, with these memories simulations there's a lot of clicking, so I wanted to take away as many clicks as possible from the user. Judy Warner (16:44) Well, that's awesome. Tyler (16:48) so you know you load your datasets and then you can select which tests you want to run by default, they're all enabled. so you can go ahead and just hit run all. And now it's running all of the tests listed in the JDEC standard across these nine datasets that previously would have been nine different simulations, so maybe like nine days to run all of this. and it's already done. So now you have all your past fail results. Ben Dannan (17:15) Catch that Judy, it's it's done. Judy Warner (17:17) No, it's it's it's kind of mind blowing. And again, I know I'm Ben Dannan (17:20) Yeah, it's gonna take a week. Judy Warner (17:21) a civilian, but when you're telling me this could take nine days or three weeks and this is, you know, to do each corner and Ben Dannan (17:26) That took less than thirty seconds. Yeah. Judy Warner (17:30) tie up all that equipment and then maybe not even give you the correct result. Ben Dannan (17:36) Yeah. G gives Judy Warner (17:38) So Ben Dannan (17:39) you goosebumps, right? Judy Warner (17:40) that's amazing. It's kind Ben Dannan (17:42) Mm-hmm. Judy Warner (17:42) of scary when you think about it. Tyler (17:45) Yeah, so we're utilizing like parallel processing and things like that to make it fast. Judy Warner (17:50) Okay. Tyler (17:51) and then the thing from here we'd give to our customers we'd export an HTML report, which I just click the button and it takes a second to write. Now it's on the screen. So this is what we give to our customer, it gives them a summary of you know all the simulation information, the the name of the data sets, the type of simulation, corner cases. How many bits were run tells you what failed, and you could click to view the results, and then what passed, and then information only, what was not run. So a lot of engineers, SI engineers, whenever you mention like memory simulations, they'll tell you that they hate it because you have to look at so many eyes, and it's very complicated. Unless you're Ben for some reason, he loves memory simulations. So what I wanted we get a lot of data running these simulations. And I wanted to provide some kind of way for, you know, whoever runs it, they get a quick idea of like how much margin do they have, what passed and what failed. So we developed this plot, which gives you your voltage margin for the IMASC and a timing margin for the IMASK, which is the X and Y axes here. And then you also see grayed out. would be like the slow, typical, and fast corner, except for which one selected. So you get a view in a single plot of like all your eye performance. Ben Dannan (19:26) And normally this is a manual process for you to do after memory designer. So this you could just simulate memory designer and then let our toolpost plot all this for you. Judy Warner (19:38) That's amazing. And then it gives you the visual of the eyes. So Ben Dannan (19:42) Yep, a very manual process for you to set up a memory design. Judy Warner (19:47) So th this is amazing. I'm not technical enough to ask you. I mean, I can see the implications here. So let me ask you my civilian questions here. This is kind of mind blowing, and I'm always amazed at when things like this come up in our industry. And I was like, How have we been doing this? And like, what's out in the field? Right? It's it's kind of scary when you think about where these applications are. So are you guys going into the software business? Are you out of engineering now? Are you to go into the software business or what? Like, so what it I I guess let me back up. What did this do to your team? how are you making this available not only for the work you're doing for your clients, but really the software business side of it? Is this something you're willing to license or how are you going about this? Ben Dannan (20:41) Yeah, so this is a tool that we are licensing. So we built this to really help us because we're a nimble, small, agile team. We wanted to be able to provide our customers continually the best service. We pride ourselves being fast. And I'm I'm constantly pushing our team to do things faster, like benchmarking HP C making sure it's tuned. I even compared it against key sites. I thought we went fast enough, but we smoked their HP C. And so the point is that we want to be the fastest. And that gives us that competitive edge. So people want to work with us because we're able to help them on their schedule. But that being said, we're not going to keep this in-house. We want customers to have this. So we are licensing it, but we also license other things. This goes in line with what our core is from a business perspective. We're a product and services business. So we are here to help people solve SIPI problems, whether it's with products or services. And this is just another product that we'll be offering. We do a lot of test automation. And so this just complements what we're already doing in-house. Judy Warner (21:41) So along that I've watched you build this business from scratch. So we've known each other for a while back in your days at Northam and I'm and I've had the pleasure of working with you and Steve and Heidi often and sort of tracking your career trajectory, Ben, and it's really been great to watch and see you really learning from the best and the brightest and then standing up this company. But you had a I was really aware that what you were doing was offering invaluable services to fill that gap across the industry. I guess what I hadn't realized, and why I really wanted to have you on today is to realize your more holistic approaches, which is you do have software licensing, but you also sell equipment on your website. I noticed you have picotest products that you have some instruments. So why don't you give our audience sort of an What was your mindset there? And then sort of what is that what does that stack look like as far as what SES is offering to the industry? Ben Dannan (22:47) Yeah, and so this goes back to that earlier part of our discussion where I alluded to if you're an engineer today, you pick a scope and you want to make a measurement on your dot. What do you have between your dot and your scope? Why does that matter? Do I care about this uncertainty? And so these are all those pieces that we've curated together as a a strong portfolio to hey, we can do that for you as service in-house. And when you're ready or willing to bring that in-house, you want to organically grow that, we're also here to help you on that side to build that for you so your team can be successful either with us doing it or with your team doing it. And so we have curated a complete portfolio that's really focused around solving single integrity, power integrity, and EMC problems. That includes everything from services to measurement equipment, analyzers, scopes, DNAs, cables. And we we pulled together all the companies that we represent. And it's we only use products that we we know and that we've cured that we've tested and worked with that we know will solve the problems that need to be solved. We're not just putting things on our line card or in our store that we haven't worked with. That's not that's not the value that we're trying to bring to customers. We only use and recommend what we know works. And so that's the value that we bring to customers. So it allows us to help customers really become a force multiplier. And that was really the goal, right? Be that one stop SIPI shop. Judy Warner (24:11) Yeah, I I love that. Tyler, was there something else you wanted to to share on that slide? Did I jump ahead? Tyler (24:18) I mean there's a a few more things we can share. I did wanna Judy Warner (24:21) Okay. Tyler (24:22) kinda add to what Ben was saying just to tie it up a little bit, Judy Warner (24:24) Okay. Tyler (24:25) is that and I really like that he says we're a solutions company. Judy Warner (24:29) Yes. Tyler (24:29) you know, it's kind of in the name. Anything S IPI, we're looking for the best way to solve those problems. And we've identified a lot of those and we like to share them with our customers. Ben Dannan (24:41) Yeah, that was always the vision, and that's the team that we've built. and that's really part of our core values here at Single In Solutions. And that's why like I love guys like Tyler. Like, we have such an amazing team. It's just awesome what we're doing. if you're fly on the wall, just to see what we're building. I mean, Step Load Pro is another automation software where we took a roti scope, Picotest, Step Load Probe, some other Picotest accessories, and we bundled all that together with some custom software that makes Full power supply stability testing in under thirty seconds. And it gives you not only a full spice model, but it tells you if it's stable, tells you how to fix this. And it's a huge force multiplier. It would have taken another engineer on the bench, hours to set up, hours to run, and we do this in 30 seconds. Judy Warner (25:30) Well, like you, Ben, people accuse me of being the hype girl for companies like I'm marketing. But I really that is not my worldview. My worldview is hang out with really smart people that are doing really good stuff and try to curate it. And here, here's Ben and his team. And so what I hear you saying is similar to my worldview is like we're gonna be a solution. Like Tyler said, like we're only using products that we believe in. So instead of looking at us as hustlers, it's like Do the thing that brings value to the market and you will be successful. And and what I appreciate about what you're doing is it's sort of the menu approach because engineers hate being driven like you can only get it this way with the SaaS software. And this is the only way you can get it. They hate being pigeonholed. They every engineer is different and They want to sort of have their dashboard and their stack of tools the way they wanna do it and the way that they wanna take that on. And one day it might be consulting and another day it's like just license the software, or I don't wanna go look forever for this set of cables or probes. I'm just gonna go to Ben's site. So I think it's the curation of known good engineering tools, products and services that makes you valuable. And I know that resonates with me. That's what I'm trying to do. And it's not hype. It's trying to turn the signal to noise ratio. Ben Dannan (27:09) Wait, wait a minute. Judy Warner (27:10) Yeah. It's just like turn down the noise and and give engineers good tools for their toolbox to be successful and get there faster. And you've certainly done that here. Tyler, was there anything else you wanted to screen share? You can stop sharing that if you want, or if you want to continue, I wanted to give you the opportunity to do that. Tyler (27:34) Sure. Yeah, I can share a couple more things. Judy Warner (27:36) Okay. Tyler (27:37) so you know, one thing I like about this tool is, you know, we can investigate particular failures. so looking at the monotonicity results, you know, I see some of these signals fail monotonicity. I could look at, you know, address six at U600 and go back into the tool and look at its waveform. So I could load U600. A6, look at the monotonicity. And I see down here there's a failure. So now I can inspect that particular failure and then determine, you know, maybe that's something on a waiver or something to go back to the artwork and see if there's any improvements that could be made. Judy Warner (28:22) Amazing that you can drill down like that. Ben Dannan (28:25) Super quick, right? He even added a marker right there on the pan scope. So it's super Yeah, Judy Warner (28:28) I know, I love that marker. Ben Dannan (28:31) it's so cool, right? Judy Warner (28:33) Very cool. Well, Ben, anything else that I haven't asked you about? I feel like our audience is gonna have more questions, but I know you're out there sharing it and you're doing papers and there's beautiful stuff on your website. I wanna ask you about what's next, but before I do that, anything else you want to share about the MemCheck Pro and thank you for sharing. What was the other the Step Load Pro? Ben Dannan (29:03) Yeah, StepLoad Pro. Yeah, that's a few of our software. We have a bunch more coming. There's a lot that we're working on. Stay tuned. We have a lot of DesignCon papers we're working on. Tyler's doing some awesome work as well as the rest of the team. But if they want to learn more, they can just go to our website, go to https://SignalEdgeSolltuions.com or reach out at info@signaledgesolutions.com and we're happy to work with you and help you, whether it's this or something else on the signal and power integrity side. Judy Warner (29:29) Okay, well Ben, because you and Tyler are just such cool purcible supernerds. What's next? Like the next six to twelve months, give us a sneak peek of your roadmap. Ben Dannan (29:42) Yeah, so yeah, so I think the the big thing would be if I told you for StepLoad Pro, right, we're able to do full stability testing and tell you if it's stable or not. That's for a power supply that's not PM bus. But what if it was a PM bus based device? Now that means all this control loop settings and the power supply and the control loop all tunable via register settings. What if I told you Our software will have a library for each one of those devices. And it's able to not only run full stability analysis, but automatically tune those register settings on the control loop for that PM bus based regulator and recommend the optimal register settings that you can just output as an input to your software team to streamline your tuning process to get your board. ready to run and work for your ASIC or FPGA or whatever you're trying to operate on. That's what we're gonna do next. That's coming next. Judy Warner (30:46) That's exciting. Well, a big congratulations to you both. And glad you found each other in the world. And Ben, congratulations on the growth of your company. Obviously, it's resonating. You've grown a ton. And I really like your model. And this the MemCheck Pro is really a big feather in your cap and excited to see not only what it's gonna do, I'm sure that's completely changed. the way your team's working, but to hear more as time goes on about how that's impacting engineering teams everywhere. So big congrats to you and thanks for sharing it with us. I will make sure and send people to your website. Any other calls to action, I know you're going to be at DesignCon. Any other shows or any specific pages on your website that you'd like to call out. Ben Dannan (31:42) Yeah, I mean we have a huge blog. we try to publish around thirty to forty blogs per year and it's become a huge repository for knowledge and folks to go to. And so if people really want to learn more about Signal and Power Integrity, go to our blog, subscribe, it's free we have all of our publications there. So you can read all of our design con or other articles. Tyler and I are always doing new publications. Tyler's doing some amazing stuff, discussing causality and some other interesting topics related to the field. So there's tons to learn. and remember, it's it's not just me and Tyler. We have a whole team here. there's 16 of us here at Signal Edge Solutions and we are growing. And so there's a whole team of engineers here willing to help you and teach you what we're doing. Judy Warner (32:26) Fantastic. Well, so grateful for you. And as a veteran from the industry, I w I I just have to share a quick story that at the end of Design Con last year I was sitting with our dear friend Bert Simonovich and we were grinning ear to ear and we're like, the kids got it. Like we've passed the baton, you know, because for so long we've been so concerned. Steve, Eric. me, Bert, like we gotta get this baton. But not only do I feel with engineers like you and Tyler, the baton has been passed, but you guys are taking it to a whole other level that is gonna be such a gift to the industry. So thank you for all you're doing. Thanks for taking the baton baton. So when the time comes, people like Bert Timonovich and me can put our feet up and know we're in good hands. Ben Dannan (33:22) Thanks to you. Yeah, I appreciate that. Judy Warner (33:24) For our audience, thanks so much for joining us today. I trust you really enjoyed this interesting conversation with Ben Dann and Tyler Huddleston. I'll put the links for you below. Make sure you go check it out and check out all that they're doing. hopefully this has been super valuable to you. We will see you next time. Until then, remember to always stay connected to the ecosystem. Look at us in thirty three minutes saying all that stuff.